Marriage Life and More

Conflict Can Be Good in a Marriage Pt 1 (Marriage Reset Series) - 279

• Daniel and Michelle Moore • Episode 279

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A ghost story, a river prank, and a camp legend set the stage for a bigger truth about love: real connection grows when couples stop dodging conflict and learn to repair with kindness. We open with Leo and Julia’s unforgettable “river widow” moment, then dig into why tension is the heartbeat of every great romance on screen—and why it’s just as vital in a healthy marriage. Not because drama is good, but because growth is. Avoidance turns small sparks into slow-burning distance; courage turns tough conversations into trust, empathy, and intimacy.

We share how conflict skills can reshape a relationship, drawing on decades of research and years of lived lessons. You’ll hear practical ways to keep heat from becoming harm: set ground rules, take a timeout to pray and reset, and come back ready to listen. We unpack the power of validation, why face-to-face repair lands better than a text, and how shifting from “Who’s right?” to “How do we stay close?” changes everything. Along the way, we highlight the strengths inside your differences—processing styles, pace, and priorities—and how they can complement rather than collide.

By the end, you’ll have a fresh lens for tension: conflict as an opportunity. Opportunity to see your own blind spots, to understand your spouse more deeply, and to rebuild unity with humility. If you’ve felt stuck in repeat fights, this conversation offers a path to break old patterns and protect what matters most—safety, respect, and true intimacy rooted in faith. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review to help more couples find these tools. Then tell us: what’s one repair habit that’s changed your marriage?



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Daniel Moore:

Every great love story seems to start with a little chaos. And, for Leo and Julia, it involved a ghost story, a raft full of terrified middle school boys, and one legendary prank that still makes the camp counselors laugh and possibly a few campers twitch to this day. What began as a splash of mischief on a Colorado River turned into the start of something deeper. Proof that laughter really can be the spark that lights a lifelong connection. Today on Marriage Life and More, we're diving into why stories like theirs captivate us and why even the best love stories, both on-screen and real life, need a little bit of conflict to keep things real. Because let's be honest, nobody wants to watch a romantic comedy where the couples just agree on everything and pay their bills on time. In marriage, just like in the movies, it's often the tension, the growth, and the what were you thinking moments that make the relationship stronger. So grab your coffee or your life jacket, and we're gonna talk about how facing conflict head on can actually bring you closer than ever. Welcome to Marriage Life and More. This is a podcast about marriage, Bible, and book studies, we interview people that have inspiring stories. I'm Daniel Moore, your host, and sticking over next to me is my beautiful co-host once again, my wife Michelle. Hey, hey! Thank you guys for joining us this week. If you're not familiar with our show, check out our website at marriagelifeandmore.com for our platforms. We're on YouTube and Rumble, also the creation podcasting app Edifi. We're also on your Alexa and Google Smart devices. You can also visit us on social on Facebook, Instagram, and X at CTGAPOnline. If you're a fan of our show, please subscribe. Feel free to leave a comment on our platforms and give us a thumbs up or a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. And we appreciate it that you would do that for us. Also, our new book is out Marriage is a Mission, Living Out God's Design for Marriage. You can pick up your copy of the paperback, the hardback, and the Kindle version at Amazon.com. And we also have a six session study guide that you can purchase exclusively on Amazon as well. And then if you are an ebook reader, we also have them on Apple Books and Google Play. So there's plenty of places you can pick that up and go pick up your copy today. Well, as we mentioned here in the intro, this week we are going to be moving into something that sounds kind of controversial, really, as we continue our series on marriage reset, Remates the Soulmates in your marriage. This week we're going to be starting off episode nine, and we're going to be talking about how conflict can be good in your marriage. According to Johan Wolfgang von Goth, it is sometimes essential for a husband and a wife to quarrel. They get to know each other better.

Michelle Moore:

I'm glad you said that.

Daniel Moore:

At a rustic mountain retreat in Colorado, a group of college students spent each summer working as counselors at a youth adventure camp. Among them were Leo and Julia, both energetic, fun-loving, and easygoing individuals who had formed a close friendship over the years. Though not romantically involved at the time, they developed a playful bond marked by mischief and laughter. One warm evening during their break, Leo and Julia decided to swim in the river that twisted along the edge of the camp property. As they floated near the bank, they noticed a gathering of middle school boys perched on a rickety wooden raft, their feet dangling in the water. Julia grinned knowingly, she could tell what was happening. The boys were hearing the tale of the river widow. The river widow is a camp legend, passed down from generation to generation. The story went that she was once a heartbroken woman who had lost her husband to the violent current during a storm. Ever since, she supposedly haunted the river banks, dragging unsuspecting swimmers beneath the surface to join her in her watery grief. It was, of course, a cautionary tale, meant to keep campers from swimming alone or after dark, but to the younger kids, it was terrifyingly real. Julia and Leo exchanged a glance. The opportunity was too good to pass up. They silently slinked along the shore, slipping behind a clump of reeds until they could paddle unnoticed beneath the raft. They barely contained their stifled chuckles as they positioned themselves just below the boys. As the older counselor reached the climax of the story, his voice rising with the tension, he bellowed the words and then she rose from the depths, the river widow. Well, that was Julia's cue. She shot out of the water with perfect timing, hair plastered to her face and hands reaching toward the boys, letting out a blood curdling scream that echoed through the valley. What followed could only be described as comic pandemonium. High pitched shrieks filled the air, boys tripped over one another, scrambling off the raft and flailing wildly in all directions. One even lost a shoe in the water. Leo emerged seconds later laughing so hard he could barely swim. The prank became instant camp legend, especially among the staff who praised Julia's Oscar worthy performance. Leo was completely captivated by her sense of humor and fearless creativity. Though it would take a little more time for their friendship to bloom into romance, that moment marked the beginning of something more. For Leo, it was the first time he considered that Julia might be more than just his prank partner. She was smart, playful, daring, and unforgettable. To this day, they laugh about the infamous River Widow scare, and now every time someone mentions courage or cleverness, Leo just shakes his head and smiles and says, You've never met Julia. You know, people can't seem to get enough of a heartfelt love story. And it turns out they're in good company. The romance fiction industry brings in over a billion dollars a year, and since the late 70s, romantic comedies have raked in more than twelve billion at the box office. Clearly, there's something magnetic about love centered entertainment, but what exactly draws us in? Well, surprisingly, the secret ingredient behind most beloved romantic plots isn't just the affection, it's conflict. That's right. The tension, the misunderstandings, and obstacles that make us wonder whether the two leads will even be together are what truly keep us hooked. Watching engaging characters navigate their differences, face emotional challenges, and eventually come together is what leaves audiences satisfied with their signature feel-good ending. Whether it's on screen or in the pages of a book, this dynamic creates memorable stories, and the same idea applies to real life love stories also. Conflict, when handled well, is often what makes the relationship stronger. And as we start this week, it always has to remind me, and it is it is this time of the year when we think about Hallmark movies.

Michelle Moore:

Oh my gosh.

Daniel Moore:

And the at Christmas. You know, we've had Christmas in July, and now it's time to have the Hallmark Christmas movies. And it as all of those that I've ever watched, uh the the plot that they all have is there's conflict. There's always something going on that and I think that they've hit on something here because I think that whenever you do watch those movies and you're trying to to think, well, are they going to end up together at the end, or is she going to pick him or pick this other guy or this guy that just moved into town? It really does, you know, make for a suspenseful moment.

Michelle Moore:

You are just As I sit over here staring at him because I know where he's going with it. And it's like, don't even pick one of the homework movies. It's not even not even right, you know.

Daniel Moore:

Well, I know you don't watch it as much as you used to.

Michelle Moore:

No, I've only watched one this year. Thank you very much. I don't have time.

Daniel Moore:

But it is kind of funny though, because as you as we was reading here a little bit through this story and and there, especially in that last section there about how we look at stories in general in life, you know, a lot of times it is true when you watch TV or you watch movies, you know, there it's very rare that you do watch a show that doesn't have conflict in it. And I think that does add to the whole storyline.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

Because if you have the conflict show up, you know, it's it starts out like a picture perfect thing, then all of a sudden the conflict comes in, and then you're just drawn into it after that because you're like, okay, are they going to fix this or how are they going to fix this? You know, and then so you're waiting to get to the end of it to see how it turns out. Yeah. And if you really, especially if it's a series, you know, you might be uh you might have your favorites of the characters or whatever that that are in those series. And so you never want them to have the raw end or, you know, to get the bad end of the deal. So you're always hoping that it works out for them. And I think it is interesting when you think about that, about how our mind works, you know, about how that intrigues us so much sometimes. Cause really a lot of times when we think about conflict, it's not really a something that's good. It's not something we think that we want to go through. Because a lot of us don't like conflict. No, you know, we don't like to have those, especially with our spouses. Yeah. You know, we want everything to be okay all the time. You know, I don't wake up in the morning just looking for the first thing I can do to start conflict with you. And you don't do that to me, thank goodness. Because that would make it very difficult to to live together, you know, if that went on all the time. But at the same time, I know, you know, there's a lot of times when we look at conflict, even between you and I, uh, is there a lot of times when we've been through conflict where you've grown? Oh, absolutely. Where you think, you know, it's been a positive thing.

Michelle Moore:

I do. I mean, I think sometimes, you know, your spouse can call you out on something and you whether you acknowledge it at that moment or not, but you know, if you go back and forth a little bit, you can actually open your heart and ask God, like, is that truly me? Is that how I'm being?

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

You know? And um, whether it may be something that you've done or, you know, sometimes they had their best your best interests within the conflict.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah. And I'm glad you said it that way because when we do think about conflict and marriages, sometimes we do look at it in a very negative manner. And the fact that we're just duping it out, having to fight between each other.

Michelle Moore:

Well, we know who would win if we duped it out.

Daniel Moore:

But I like how you said that it actually causes you sometimes to search your own heart. Yeah. And I can say, I can vouch for that myself as well, because I might, I might be at the moment, you know, just being a very difficult individual to live with and you know, being very negative and whatever, but I may not see that.

Michelle Moore:

I can say that and early on in our marriage, I didn't look at it that way. Yeah. I mean, I think as we've got been married for a longer time, and you know, not only that, but my heart is healthy with the Lord. And so now I look at it as like, oh, is this his way of kind of telling me that I'm out of line? Or, you know, it's like, okay, God, you know, is he is he bringing something to my attention? Yeah, you know, that really needs to be addressed.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah. And so I think this should be everybody's goal because we always didn't, like you said, we always didn't look at it that way where we took our correction moments as no, that's gonna punch you. I need to think about what I'm doing here. See, you beat me to it this week.

Michelle Moore:

I did.

Daniel Moore:

But when your relationships can get to the point where you can actually take the conflict and use that as a moment to search your own heart and okay, God, is this something I'm needing to fix? You know, is this something that's going on within me? Uh let me take a step back for a moment and think about this. So as we can tell here, as we get started with this, uh, we do know that conflict's not always a dirty word. You know, conflict can be good in some situations. So go ahead and and share with us a little bit about how that can happen.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah. Struggles in struggles in any long-term relationship are bound to happen. Friction is simply a normal part of life shared closely with one another person. Expecting two individuals uniquely wired by design to always see eye to eye is unrealistic. So true. Disagreements, debates, misunderstandings, and yes, even full-blown arguments are going to happen. While this may seem negative at first glance, conflict can actually become a meaningful part of a couple's journey. Still, many people go to great lengths to dodge tension, believing that conflict is a signal that something is broken in the relationship. For others, confrontation is stressful. It stirs up discomfort or brings back memories of past hurt, whether in childhood or previous re relationships. So rather than deal with it, they sweep problems under the rug. And I'm gonna stop right there for a second because you know, when we were talking about our testimony from episode who knows when.

Daniel Moore:

199.

Michelle Moore:

199, episode 199. Okay. So I can remember you talking about confrontation, how you didn't like it.

Daniel Moore:

Right.

Michelle Moore:

And, you know, it it's easy to not want to acknowledge it.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

And just push it under the rug and move on.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

And that's exactly how you felt. And me, on the other hand, confrontation to me was just like, let's get this talked about, let's get this over with, put it behind us. But because you didn't have confrontation, we just kind of I I wish we would have had this, because knowing that conflict can be good, if you look at it now versus back then, it would have been healthy for us.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah, and I think the key there that is the one thing that you shared was how many people go to great lengths to dodge that tension or conflict because I was trying not to say that because that's what I was referring to here. Something is broken in the relationship. Yep. And in all reality, anytime you're gonna have a conflict moment, uh-huh, there is something broken or you wouldn't have the conflict. Right. So that's why when we choose, some of us that have that personality that choose to push it under the rug and try to ignore it and act like it didn't happen and just keep moving on with life, that's a very dangerous thing because in all reality, when you come back to it, whether if it was you that had the issue or whether if it was me that had the issue, or if both of us had it together, something broke.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

Something caused a flare-up for a moment there that caused some some conflict between the two of us. And it the dumbest thing we can do is just ignore it and move on and not try to fix it.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

Because what ends up happening with that, typically in my life, it happens this way. If the more that I and I've learned this over time, the more that I keep pushing stuff under the rug, it continues to build.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

And then what started out as a very small little problem can eventually become a big, huge mountain.

Michelle Moore:

Right.

Daniel Moore:

And then try to dig through all of that. I mean, you have so much more to work through at that point.

Michelle Moore:

Fortunately, buried conflicts don't stay buried. Like as you said, they simmer beneath the surface and eventually lead to bigger issues that are more damaging and much harder to manage. Over time, this kind of avoidance builds resentment, creates emotional distance, and can crumble the foundation of love and unity. The Apostle Paul warned of this dynamic when he said, if you bite and devour each other, watch out, or you will be destroyed by each other. And you can read that in Galatians 5 15. Real peace doesn't come from avoiding problems. Let me read this again. Real peace doesn't come from avoiding problems, it comes from facing them head on with kindness, and I'm gonna underline kindness and a commitment, and underline commitment to work through them together. With kindness and a commitment to work through them together. Relationship researchers Scott Stanley and Howard Markman have spent decades studying this and found that learning to handle conflict in a healthy way is a crucial factor in keeping love alive and maintaining long-term commitment. According to their findings, if couples were equipped to navigate their disagreements well, the divorce rate could drop over by half. Could you imagine that? Wow. That is crazy. There's that's a powerful testament to the value of addressing challenges directly.

Daniel Moore:

And I think before we go any further, when you look into that just a little bit deeper and you really kind of think this through with what they were coming, the conclusion they were coming up with there was you we know that if you end up in a divorce and divorces happen, um, those actually happen because there was conflict.

Michelle Moore:

Right.

Daniel Moore:

So I can see why those statistics would completely flip to a point where if you uh actually was able to in a healthy way work through the conflict and meet it head on, like you were saying, and not you know, divert yourself around it and let this become a a huge mountain that does typically what happens is that mountain gets bigger, is the conflict issues also change. And a lot of times when the very first conflict happens, it's kind of a more a small minor issue, probably. Uh for the most it can be a big issue. I'm not saying it can't be right off the bat that some big thing can happen because it can.

Michelle Moore:

Right.

Daniel Moore:

But typically it always starts with something small, and then if you don't take care of that, then as the problems escalate and that mountain keeps getting bigger and bigger, those issues all of a sudden become more and more ingrained into the issue of the problem you're having in your marriage. And what started out as a little small issue that probably could have been resolved in a 15 or 20 minute conversation, it can come into something now that's going to take years to fix because so much damage has been done. Uh, there's been so much ignoring on the spouse's parts of ignoring each other, uh, you know, pushing each other to the side, not listening, not being heard, all that other stuff starts coming into play. And now you're actually damaging the actual relationship between the two of you.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

Rather than just having that one little small minute thing that happened at the very beginning of the whole ordeal. And that's one thing that I've learned, even within my own self, because I used to be really bad about just pushing things under the rug and just keep moving on and just try to move past and act like it didn't happen and not confront, have any confrontation with any of that. But over time I found out almost every time I've tried to do that, the problem became so big that it was a humongous blow-up when it all finally came to a head, and then it took much longer to work through it. And our we hurt each other more.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

And through that whole process, and we had to fix more stuff between the two of us to get back to a healthy spot where we needed to be. And we probably could have been in a healthy spot within 20 minutes if we would have taken carriage at the very beginning when I first had the issue.

Michelle Moore:

And you know, when you have conflict, what generally happens? You're trying to prove your point.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah. Yeah, we get defensive and we're wanting to be right.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah. And so when it says kindness and commitment to work them together, I think that's really the key is you know, he says, she says, you know.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

It's you work together, you know, and the conflict, whether I feel like now we've also gotten to the point too, is is it really worth it? Right. You know, back then it was like everything was worth a conflict. You know, it was like, I am going to prove my point. Not at a in a mean way, but it's like, I think I'm right. You know, now it's like, is it really worth it? No. And we we know each other so well, it's like, yeah, whatever. You know, and you just pick your battles. Yeah, you just move on. But I really like where in it said the kindness and commitment, because I really think if you would address it then, um, and sometimes you know you have to give it some time and then come back to it. But the thing is, don't let it build and build and build. Because, like you said, it becomes a huger problem if both of you get hurt. So, romantic movies and novels thrive on conflict. It's what gives the story tension and excitement. However, in real life, most people would rather skip that part. Still, it's vital to understand that working through our conflict leads to growth. Tough arguments may feel chaotic and uncomfortable in the moment. They ought they're often the pathway to deeper empathy, stronger trust, and a closer bond. Many couples miss out on that because the discomfort masks the opportunity for growth. But when conflict is handled with care, it often brings couples closer than they were before. Here are a few of the benefits we can discover when we face our conflicts. Dan, do you want to read those?

Daniel Moore:

Yes. So, as and as we started this episode, uh, we did talk about how the conflicts we've been in has helped help us grow and get closer together and have a stronger bond. And so I know it's hard probably, especially if you guys are listening today and you're at a point in your marriage where you guys are conflicting a lot. You're having a lot of conflicts going on, uh, maybe daily, maybe it's every other day, or maybe you're having two or three blow ups a week, uh, and you you're thinking about this, and you're thinking, well, how's this can't be right? How can this be a positive thing? Uh so just hear us out. As we finish up this episode, I think I'm hoping that God will just open your your heart and your eyes to see um how you can work through those conflicts and actually become a stronger individual and a stronger spouse in your relationship. So, a few benefits that we can discover when we face our conflicts. Number one is you can have greater insight into your own personal issues. You actually hit that wall ago. Because just like you said, at this point now, if we have a conflicting moment between the two of us, a lot of times your first one of your first go-tos is you will sit there and think, okay, I need to look at myself and see is there something here? You know, God show me. And I think that's really good for any spouse to keep in mind because we should automatically, and this is a common denominator as well, uh, when you're looking at the reactive cycle, when you have your buttons being pushed by your spouse and you're reacting to all of that, you know, that circle can go and go and go because we have multiple buttons and we have multiple reactions and we can both feed off of each other until one of us decides to stop it.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

And when you stop that, um the first thing that you have to do when you do stop it is they you do back up. You take a moment, you take a breather away from all of it, and you start inquiring of the Lord. What is wrong here? Is this something with me? Is it something with my spouse? God, please show me in my heart. If there's something I need to correct, I'm willing to do it. If it's something with them and they need to correct it, give me the words to speak, give me the way to approach that, or God, you know, through the Holy Spirit work through with them to open their heart in this moment. Well, I think we can both come to a resolution.

Michelle Moore:

When you take the the conflict off of you and your spouse, and you're bringing it to God, you're letting God work through you, and it's not a oh, he's wrong, she's wrong. Right. Or it's it's not he or she, it becomes okay, God.

Daniel Moore:

Yep.

Michelle Moore:

That's where I'm removed from it.

Daniel Moore:

Can we work through that?

Michelle Moore:

That's right. The conflict is yes.

Daniel Moore:

Satan wants us to fight each other. Yeah. So Satan automatically wants us to start pointing fingers and play the blame game. Yeah. That's what he wants us to do. But we're all children of God. We're as spouses, we're not each other's enemy.

Michelle Moore:

That's right.

Daniel Moore:

We're our best friends.

Michelle Moore:

That's right. So good.

Daniel Moore:

So you don't fight each other because we're not supposed to be fighting each other. We're not enemies. We're God put us together as a functioning family to thrive and to grow, grow, you know, grow closer to Him within our relationship so that that love for Christ flows into other couples. We're supposed to be mentors to other people around us.

Michelle Moore:

Okay.

Daniel Moore:

And the moment that Satan can come in and break that, and he can make it become all of a sudden these fights become about you, or it becomes about me, and the other spouse is going to sit there and point fingers and criticize and you know put the blame game or whatever. That's exactly Satan's heyday. He loves it when that happens because that creates this issue between the spouses that's make her break at that point.

Michelle Moore:

That brings that pride in.

Daniel Moore:

It does that, yes, pride.

Michelle Moore:

Selfish pride.

Daniel Moore:

Very, very good. That's a very big thing that involved gets involved there at that point. Another benefit is we can have better appreciation of the differences between the two of us.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah, that's good.

Daniel Moore:

I don't know a spouse anywhere that the husband and wife are both identical. Everybody has differences in their personalities, the way that they operate. And God did this on purpose. God's a very creative God. And typically you'll see spouses that are like on total opposites of the spectrum. You would you wonder how in the world they get along because they're so different. But that's where God likes to work.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

You know, as Christian couples, uh, those things that you do that I don't do, and the things that I do that you don't do, God can highlight those between the two of us, and we could actually bring those things together and feed off of them to turn that into the best marriage we could ever have, because then you're you're not, you're never going to be bored because you're going to have so many things that you can offer to the table. And I have different things to offer to the table. And if we approach this in a godly way, in a godly manner, God can use that to make us help us have the best marriage that we could ever ask for.

Michelle Moore:

And I think it's very important though, too, that we, you know, as we're having these conflicts, you know, and handle them in a uh whatever we want to say. In a godly way. The appreciation that keeps coming back to me as in like, you know, I can look at you as we're having this conflict sometimes. And now it's like, I knew he was gonna say that. And it's like, I and I'm not saying I know how he's gonna react to everything. That's not it, but because we're different, my appreciation to you is looking it through your eyes. Right. Like, okay, God, I appreciate the fact that my husband is going to react in this way.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

And because you're a godly man. Now, are we always perfect? Absolutely not.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

But I'm very appreciative that I can usually be like, okay, this is how he's gonna handle it, and I wait. I'm like, okay, this is how it's gonna go down. And you know, but you know, we've almost been married for 25 years, so it there's a difference. And I wouldn't have been appreciative back when we were first married. I can tell you that right now. Anything you said, I definitely was not appreciative. I wanted to prove my point, and that's all that mattered. Yeah, so I'm thankful for you, Dan. Even though we're different, I know how not all the time, but sometimes when I know we're getting ready to have a conflict, and generally it's about our children.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

Or finances. That's our two big ones. It it is honestly, I can see how God has used you to change me. And so I appreciate that so much.

Daniel Moore:

And it goes both ways because I'm not the same person I was either 25 years old.

Michelle Moore:

No, you're not.

Daniel Moore:

I'm a completely different person. Matter of fact, we was talking last night. Uh, there's times that, you know, especially when guys get together and they start talking, uh, they want to do the tough talk, you know. And if the marriage, the the spouses come up, or even back in the day when it was boyfriend, girlfriend, you know, the the common thing that would be said a lot was, you know, you do certain things, you lose your man card. You know, it's like, but at this point in life, you know, they can it can be called what you want it to be called.

Michelle Moore:

I I don't ever remember it being called man card. So every time you say that, I'd like to be like, that was guy talk.

Daniel Moore:

That wasn't something that was yeah.

Michelle Moore:

Okay.

Daniel Moore:

That was between the guys. Okay, gotcha. It's an in in an internal joke. Okay, basically. But in all reality, you know, sometimes those things that we looked at as quote unquote losing the man card, those are the things that mean a lot to the wife. And that is a very important thing that the man needs to nourish in his wife because that builds up the character of who she's. She actually is. And usually a lot of that comes over to the emotional and the intimate side of the relationship. And no matter how you look at it, you can't leave that part out of a relationship. That's got to be an essential part of your marriage. Yeah. You've got to have the emotional connection and that intimate connection. We've been talking about this for weeks. You cannot go without that because that's a central core part of who we are within our marriage. And so good. That brings it up to the next one. Here is the chance to empathize with your spouse. And empathy, for those people that don't know what that means, because there's some people that think empathy is a dirty word and it's not. What it means is being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. And there's a lot of times within conflict and spouses between the guy and the woman, it's real hard for the guy to put himself in his wife's shoes because he doesn't understand where she's coming from.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

Because women look at things a lot differently than guys do.

Michelle Moore:

They absolutely do.

Daniel Moore:

Sometimes the wives can't put themselves in their husbands' shoes because they don't understand where their husband's coming from on it. That's something that actually over time, I think you do get better at under because like you and I, you just mentioned, you know, at almost 25 years into this, I do have a greater understanding of how to put myself in your shoes because I know what's important to you. I know what's special to you. And so I try my hardest to make sure that if we do have these moments where we have some conflicting issues or something may come up, I don't want that whole issue to be just about me and trying to solve my, you know, my hunger and desire within me to be right, just like we were just talking about.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

I've got to look beyond that. I've got to come to the point and understand, well, in this conflict, why are we having this conflict? What is what's the issue from your side of it that's causing such an issue? You know, why are you so upset with what's going on right now? And maybe throughout trying to understand where you're coming from on that, that might change my view of how I'm looking at things. So there's different ways that you can work around these things to try to get to a resolution.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

And and it's not going to be the same for every couple. Every couple's going to have a different way that they're going to work through conflict, uh, work through their issues because of the different personalities and the different things that are at play there within that relationship. But the the core thing that we all have to do, though, is we have to get to a point where we can actually empathize with each other and put ourselves in each other's shoes from time to time to understand completely, okay, what is really going on here.

Michelle Moore:

That's good.

Daniel Moore:

You know, how do we fix this? So the next one is the opportunity to break old andeffective patterns. And you and I, we kind of talked about this a while ago. Back in the day when we first got married, we would have handled it differently.

Michelle Moore:

Oh, absolutely.

Daniel Moore:

And some of those patterns were not healthy the way that we handled conflict. So if you continue to push that same pattern through your whole marriage, I think you can see that how that would damage your relationship over time. It because if your relationship's not evolving to be in a better, more healthy condition to where you can actually work through conflict like an adult, talk through issues and figure out, you know, how to get past these things, then you're going to continually have probably this molehill becoming a mountain because you're never going to be able to solve anything. That's right. It's just going to keep snowball, that snowball effect. And so as you have these conflicts with your spouse, especially if some of them are recurring conflicts, that sometimes you have things that you revisit occasionally, they just keep coming up.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

Uh you have to, you know, try new things and different ways to approach it. Because if an old process of working through something isn't working anymore, then it's time to, okay, we got to approach this a new way. Right. We got to come up with something different because that that's not working the way that it used to. And so, and this does give you an opportunity to break off those ineffective patterns that don't work anymore and move on to something better that God may have to help you to work through those things. And the benefit of it is also to being restored in unity and oneness and have greater humility. And that's a big one because we know something that can break our unity quicker than anything, or that oneness between the two of us, is for us both to be at odds about things. You got your idea of what's going on, and I got my idea of what's going on, and we can't meet in the middle.

Michelle Moore:

Right.

Daniel Moore:

That automatically creates a break in that oneness between the two of us because we're not on the same page anymore.

Michelle Moore:

Right.

Daniel Moore:

And then that works on our humility. I've got to be able to humble myself if the fight goes on long enough where it doesn't seem like there's any resolution in sight. I've either got to be the one to step up and humble myself and you know, cut the losses and just try to fix this the best way that we can, come to a mutual medium somewhere that the two of us can agree upon, or vice versa. You got to be the one to step up. Uh, we've got to have some greater humility.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

And that gives us the opportunity to work on that. The more that we have conflict, it does work to build that humility that you have between each other, as long as you have healthy conflict and resolution. Learning to anticipate and resolve future problems. We know that when we have a conflict, that's not the last conflict we're going to have. Nope. I wish it was, but it's not. You know, somewhere down the road, something's going to happen, a trigger's going to get flipped again, a button's going to get pushed, and the next thing you know, we're going to have another conflict. Um, but the more that we work through those, you know, I have today, I have a more positive outlook as I ever have on the fact that I know if we have another conflict sometime this next week or whatever, I without a shadow of a doubt in my mind know that we're probably going to work through it. I just don't have any doubt about that anymore.

Michelle Moore:

Right.

Daniel Moore:

Because because we work through our conflicts now. We don't sit there and let them fester and become an open bleeding sore that the other one sit there and pokes at all the time and just keeps it going.

Michelle Moore:

And in fact, uh we don't have many conflicts. Very little our marriage is healthy. I mean, no, granted, we have more discussions than conflicts. Yes.

Daniel Moore:

So yeah. So that's a positive thing you can look forward to, especially if you're newly married and it seems like you're just fighting constantly. These are learning opportunities. You know, use these to learn so that later on, when this problem comes up again, you can refer back to the last time you successfully got past it. Yeah. What did we do the last time to fix this? Let's revisit that and let's build on it. You know, so we your goal is to try to not ever have a conflict in that area ever again, hopefully. Um, because we don't want to sit there and rehash old issues, you know, we want to make sure that we get past those. Right. Another benefit is closeness as you listen, understand, and validate each other. That's something definitely that we've learned over time. Yes. And it has taken us time to get to that point. But from your side from your standpoint, when you have issues and you talk to me about them, uh, do you feel like that I listen and that I understand for the most part what you're going through and you know, try to help you through those the best?

Michelle Moore:

Absolutely. I mean, if I look at it now compared to back then, I mean in our past, I mean, I truly feel like one, if we do have a conflict and we're talking, one, you're gonna look at me and you are going to acknowledge me.

Daniel Moore:

Look in the eyes.

Michelle Moore:

The intentional part of you being present, you listening to me and hearing me out, and you know, sometimes may not be what I want to hear, but in all reality, because I do respect you and I want to know what God is trying to tell me, I mean, I a hundred percent feel like that that's what we do now. I mean, you do listen to me, and now if you don't look at me, I'm like, okay, he's trying to ignore me. Or sometimes I feel like if you wouldn't listen to me, my conflict, like you weren't my problem, was not worth it.

Daniel Moore:

So you wouldn't want me to try to solve a conflict over a text message? How do you feel about that?

Michelle Moore:

Okay, so Dan knows how I feel about this. Um I think it needs brought up at this point. I am not a person who now back then, maybe like in my past, but I'm a type of person my conflict needs to be handled and talked about with my spouse face to face. Um because one, a text, you don't see how they're saying it. You don't know if it's gonna be sarcastic or if they're being sincere.

Daniel Moore:

They rolled their eyes when they typed it out.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah, like whatever it may be, you may just be saying it because that's what I wanted to hear. And we've been there. We truly have been there. I've done it myself, you've done it. So now if there is a situation, what is the one thing? We'll talk about it later.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah. And we have said that over. I know sometimes, and I I want to put this out there, there are times that if you have conflict first thing in the morning and you don't resolve it by the time you go to work, I totally understand that some people's work, you you're not allowed to be on your phones and you can't talk. That puts you in a spot where you can't really talk it out yet. You got at least eight hours before you're gonna probably be back together again. And so, but we have before, if we've had a conflict that's happened like that and we've gotten away from home and went to work still a little upset or that kind of thing, then we have before kind of talked a little bit on text for a moment. And it's like, okay, well, we get home later tonight, we're gonna sit down, we're gonna talk through this.

Michelle Moore:

And I think, you know, here's the deal. If you have to text your spouse and say, I'm sorry, I what I would what I would prefer, this is my opinion only. I would be like, okay, Dan, text me and say, Hey, let's talk about it later. I just want you to know that I love you. And I'm sorry, but I will talk to you in person when I get home. In that meantime, I'm gonna be praying for the Holy Spirit to be guiding me and directing me in that conversation and how my feelings, because here's my thing. I want to be praying, God, let me look at through this through your eyes, not how I feel, because emotions and feelings are what?

Daniel Moore:

Yeah, they're temporary.

Michelle Moore:

That's right. Yeah, I want to be able to see this through whatever God has, and whether it was intentional on our whether our conflict was intentional, not by you know anything else, but just necessarily if you were to text me, I would not be happy with that. Yeah, now some people are okay with it. Me and my personality, I am not okay. If you can speak to me that way and you can talk to me in person like that, yeah, you better apologize to in person. And you know, it just means so much more. I'm gonna see how you react. And is you can say words all day, it's your actions that come out to play in that.

Daniel Moore:

And I feel that if you're leaning on technology to be your middleman, that it actually over time is going to take out take out the personable side of your relationship with your spouse because we already have a problem today, especially between parents and kids. You probably see this more of a disconnect in that relationship, probably for the most part, but you do see it in spouses a lot also. But it's become an electronic uh relationship. Uh you your uh a lot of your stuff happens over phones or over devices, conversations that you have between each other rather than face to face. Yeah. And we're starting to lose that personal touch of the relationships between each other, and that's not a good place to be. And especially if you have conflict between the two of you, just I think what you said was perfect way to just wrap that little part up was if you can have the fight face to face and spout off the mat the mean, nasty comments and the criticizing and all that stuff. If you can do that face-to-face standing in the kitchen, then you really should be able to sit back at the table later face to face and work through that and fix it.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

You know, that's not a place to be texting or emailing or uh whatever. It's it really needs to be a face-to-face conversation, if at all possible, to try to fix that because it does. It helps you to become a better listener. It helps you to understand your spouse better, and it also helps with that validation that you have between each other that you are an important. I'm validating that you're important enough in my life that I'm willing to take my time and sit down at the table and sit across from you and look you eye in the eye to eye and try to fix it. You know, that validates me as a person when I when you're willing to do that for me. And so that's something that that really needs to be kept in mind when you do have these conflicts.

Michelle Moore:

Not everybody's the same, but just remember what you just said. If you speak to a person face to face, you need to apologize face to face.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah. And most generally, just because one spouse is okay with doing it over a text, the other one probably isn't, typically. And in my opinion, if one spouse in the equation does not like that, it should never be done because that you need to validate that other spouse's feelings as well. Come back to that empathy. You need to put yourself in their shoes. Uh, they want it to be in person for a reason, and you need to uh respect that. You really do.

Michelle Moore:

Amen. Yes.

Daniel Moore:

Uh, two more here as we close up, uh, some benefits of conflict, deeper understanding, trust, connection, and respect. And if you put all of those together, what does that become? True intimacy. Yes. So if you have a deeper understanding of each other, and again, that only comes by conversation. The more that you're with someone and talk to them and understand who they are, that gives you a deeper understanding of them as a person. And then you can also build that trust in those conversations because again, if you come to the table to work through these conflicts and look each other eye to eye, then that's going to build that trust between the two of you, and that's gonna help that connection. Yeah. And then you're gonna have a respect for each other as spouses. You know, I have total respect for you as my wife, as the mother of our kids, as the the woman of this household.

Michelle Moore:

A Nana.

Daniel Moore:

A Nana. Yeah, it's a I you know, I highly respect you in all those aspects. And a lot of that is because I have over time had these conversations with you, and I know the true you and who you are, and I know within myself that you're just a very awesome person inside and out.

Michelle Moore:

For lifting me up.

Daniel Moore:

The only way that you can get to that as spouses is to have communication.

Michelle Moore:

Yeah.

Daniel Moore:

And to work through conflicts the right way. The last one here is a benefit, is evidence of God's constant presence and help. So good. And we know that it's really hard to get through any type of a conflict between each other or any times that we get sideways with each other. We should always involve God in those conversations as much as possible because he has the answers for us and he gives us that reason and that will to want to fix it. You know, we want to live a good spiritual marriage like God has wanted like He's put upon us and called us to. And in order for us to do that, then we need to make sure we resolve these conflicts and these issues between the two of us so that we can continue to be that that beacon that shines in the darkness for these other couples to be that example that other couples that are hurting can see.

Michelle Moore:

And just remember to build them up. The evidence of God's constant's presence and help is not allowing if if you're gonna allow that and the benefit from that being, you have to remember not to be prideful.

Daniel Moore:

Yeah.

Michelle Moore:

Because that doesn't show the evidence of God's presence. Yes. So isn't it encouraging to think about the ways conflict can actually strengthen a relationship when approached together? The truth is, working through challenges doesn't automatically produce closeness, it simply opens the door for a meaningful connection to take place. That's why the word to focus on here is opportunity. Every disagreement or rough moment gives both people a chance to grow, to understand one another more deeply, and to move toward greater unity. When we shift our mindset to view conflict as a valuable opportunity rather than a disruption, everything changes. Instead of dreading the tension, we can begin to say, this is difficult, but I'm grateful for the chance it gives us to strengthen our relationship. Each tough conversation holds the potential to teach us something about who we are, about our partner, or about the way we function together. You might be thinking, okay, I get the idea. Couples who avoid hard conversations end up as roommates, while those who lean into them grow closer. But how do we handle these moments in a way that actually helps instead of making things worse? That's gonna be on our next episode.

Daniel Moore:

Yep. We're gonna look at the anatomy of a fight next week.

Michelle Moore:

Woo-hoo!

Daniel Moore:

Put on the boxing gloves. Get to wait till then. That's right. Uh but yeah, I think you know, for this week, this really is a good way to set the stage uh as we get into this conversation on conflict. And, you know, I say that conflict shouldn't be a dirty word in our marriages because we should be using those moments to grow. But at the same time, we do want to try to avoid conflict. I mean, it's not we shouldn't be out there just looking for it.

Michelle Moore:

I think if it if you're gonna have it, make sure it's healthy.

Daniel Moore:

Right. You need to make sure you learn something from it. And and if anything, just to make sure you don't make that mistake again, hopefully. You know, because we're gonna we have different scenarios in life as we go through it. We have many years together, typically, and we have many scenarios that's gonna create different issues, have different conflicts on different things. But the bad thing is when we keep rehashing the same one over and over and over and over, because obviously we're not learning our lesson if that same thing continues to be a problem. And so sooner or later we have to get to the root of what that issue is if it continues to keep popping up. There's gotta be a button there somewhere that's pushing uh from a root of something that's causing that issue to take place. And so that's something that needs to be figured out. But all of our conflicts that we have should typically, for the most part, be something new, something else that's came up, and now we got to work through that. But we use those all as building blocks in our relationship to be a stronger couple.

Michelle Moore:

So I'm curious to hear from our listeners. What and how has a good conflict helped you in your marriage going further? Yes. In in your marriage life. So if you could reach out, let us know. Do you have conflicts that's good? And how what what benefits did you get from that?

Daniel Moore:

Yep. And there's a couple ways you can actually get that to us. You can either go to the website, there's a form there you can fill out and send it, or the email we have is Daniel at connectingthegap.net. You can also send them that way. And if you're okay with it, just to help other people to learn as well, you can get on our social media. We have Facebook and uh X and Instagram. You can make comments on those platforms. Uh Spotify has it, YouTube, Rumble. There's plenty of places that you can make those comments. And uh if you'd like to share that, please do. We'd love to read those. And if you'd be willing to let us, we'd like to maybe share some. We don't have to say any names or anything, but uh that helps other people to know how to get through their conflict because there's people out there right now, probably that's having a fight at this moment that doesn't really know how to resolve it. And when people like us that have been through those fights before possibly come along and we have a resolution, that helps other couples to grow and move past those things, and then we can be a part of the resolution in that marriage situation, which to me is a very rewarding thing when we can take our experiences and help other people become better spouses. So, is there anything you want to add to this week's yeah? Okay, well, we're gonna go ahead and wrap it up, then we'll come back next week and continue this discussion on healthy conflict. Uh, so that's all for this week, and we pray that your marriage is stronger and your walk with God is closer after this episode. This is an extension of Connecting to Gap Ministries, and we pray that you have a blessed week.

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Daniel and Michelle Moore

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